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would it be wise to replace the pulldown with the nautilus pullover + curls ?

Hey Man
I would do Nautilus Pullovers and skip the curls. If you′re in final consolidation you shouldn′t be doing curls; they′re not in there. Remember, the purpose here is to train harder, not longer. You could use pullovers for 4-12 week intervals and switch back to pulldowns. If I could have my choice of back exercises, it would be Nautilus Pullovers. My new gym doesn′t have one so I′m concentrating on chins, something I′ve never really done until recently. I′m going to switch to underhand grip for awhile on those. I think if you do pull-ups with an underhand grip instead of the pulldowns you′ll get some more overlap into the biceps. If you′re into advanced techniques you probably won′t really feel like doing a set of curls afterwards. I wouldn′t worry about getting bicep stimulation, it′s happening whether you can really feel it or not.

HEAVYDUTY94,

thanks for the reply. The reason i included the curls is that i have now consolidated to fortnightly workouts of squats, pulldowns and dips (in one workout) and felt that if i did go to nautilus pullovers instead of the pulldowns then the biceps would only be getting a lower order of work as they accomodate the working triceps in the dipping exercise although i think u may be right in stating that the curls have no place here.

point is that pulldowns are considered to be more of a compound movement than pullovers as they do target more muscles and hence their place in the consolidation routine but i feel that pullovers do target the muscles of the back better and wondered whether there might be any value in doing them (nautilus pullovers) and then throwing in curls which unfortunately will make a deeper inroad into recovery ability but certainly not as severely as a big compound movement taken to failure.

My question is would the inroad u create by doing pullovers + curls compared to just pulldowns be that much greater that it obliterates all benefit that u might get by doing such a direct exercise (i.e. nautilus pullovers) ?

Hey Nautilus
Pullovers and curls would make a greater inroad, simply because you′re adding another set, and Pullovers alone will make a greater inroad because you can really move some weight around on that exercise. I say forego direct bicep training completely. Try it out. You can always go back to training them if you feel they′re not growing. Remember that high intensity training has a systemic effect and your arms will grow as long as you′re hitting the basics really hard. If you′re training deadlifts at all that would be another major reason to stay away from training biceps. I don′t believe in luck, so, Good Effort !

i know most think of the pullover as an isolation exercise but i ALWAYS feel sore in my shoulders, tri′s and abs as well as my lats from doing them. They are a terrific all around upper-body thickener.

pesonally i like to alternate the pullover and pulldown every 2 sessions or so. i dont use a pullover machine though, just a DB.

if you still want to do some curls, try what i do, that is, every 5th training session i take a break from the big compound movements and do one set each of DB side laterals and standing bent concentration curls. its a much less demanding session but still productive in that it addresses two of my weak points.

regards,
B&G;