HighIntensity.net View Mike Mentzer Bodybuilding Topic

I have been reading in alot of places that sponsor HIT.
They all say that the BEGINNER CAN and SHOULD start with a more volume approach. And AS they get STRONGER they should taper off in frequency and volume.The argument made was that a new trainee neither has the strength nor the ability to over train when it came to a say "high" volume routine.(in the beginning that is)
Does anyone on this board feel that HD is more suitable for an advance bodybuilder then a novice?
Do you think that Mentzer HIMSELF would of started someone off with more volume (not necessarily a high one maybe 2-3 sets per exercise) And would he have shortened the rest days?
A very serious matter I think that needs to be addressed.

Best Regards
Patrick

Patrick,

Heavy Duty training is designed for everyone, novice or advanced. As you have stated, a novice does not have the strength levels to cause too much of an inroad, and because of this, their training can be more frequent.

With regards to a rank beginner, I think Mike would have had two options, 1. The Ideal Routine and 2. The Consolidated Routine (2 sets per workout). The reason I say this is that people often forget that Mike had an extremely intelligent view of medicine and genetics. In fact, he was a medical student at the University of Maryland. If Mike observed that his client had a genetic disposition towards a bodybuilding physique, I think he would have had the client start on the Ideal, and as his strength and muscle size grew, he would steer the client towards the Consolidated Routine to help him reach his ultimate potential. Along with the Consolidate Routine, Mike would also advocate the use of advanced techniques, i.e., Forced Reps, Negative Reps, Rest-Pause, Infitonic and Omnicontraction.

For the client that did not posses the genetics for an advanced level of muscular development I believe that Mike would have had the client start with the Consolidated Routine and once the client reached an Advanced Level, he would employ the same advanced techniques, but with much more recovery time in between. In fact, I have read where Mike did advocate a workout consisting of only one set, as an advanced client of his was still continuing to gain on such a workout. (This workout consisted of one set performed every 20 days.)

With that being said, the client with a disposition towards an advanced level of muscular development, Mike would have had the work outs more frequently, once every 4 days. The client that possesed the genetics for an average physique at best, Mike would have had him start with one workout once every 7 days.

My answer to my own question pretty much lines up with yours.
Just one more though.
In the Seminars Mike made he said that he Started trainees on the Consolidated ( which he said he had improved)and that it was the "BARE BONES" routine.
In response would you say that when he made that statement that he didn′t mean it to the whole audience?

Thanks
Patrick

PS
Good freaking answer ,man!

Patrick,

Thank you for the compliment. I am glad that you were able to get some useful information out of what I posted.

You pose a very serious question, and I am not sure you realize how intelligent your question really is. As Mike has stated in the seminar you are speaking of, he did usually start all of his clients of on a consolidated routine (bare bones as you say – 2 sets per workout), as he did say that this routine was geard towards maximum mass for both the beginner and advanced. Again, since Mike did have an advanced level of understanding with physics, bone length and muscle fiber density, I still feel that he would have started the client with superior genetics on the Ideal Routine. As for the average person, and what Mike knew to be true with recovery ability and the dose/response relationship, I feel that he would have started the average person on the Bare Bones as you say. In fact, if you recall Mike did address this as he did say, "Build a 20 inch arm first and then worry about the details."

Brickman,

If an individual recommends more volume for a beginner, he or she does not understand why HIT works. Recommending more volume (exercises) for ANYONE who wants to build mass is a HUGE mistake! When you use less Volume, you don′t use it because unfortunately you′ve reached a point at which that′s the only way you′ll gain; you use less Volume because it will make you GROW more than more volume! The reason is, the body′s limited recovery/growth reserves…

FACT: The body uses the same resources ("reserves") for both recovery AND growth.

FACT: These reserves are in a limited amount.

FACT: Following growth stimulation, this limited amount of recovery/growth reserves will be distributed between the processes of recovery and growth.

RESULT: The goal of your workout is to stimulate growth with the LEAST amount of volume, which will then minimize the amount of the body′s limited reserves that are used on recovery, and maximize the amount that are used on growth. This will result in the maximum amount of growth from your workout.

ILLUSTRATION: Imagine that the body has 100 units of reserves to distribute between both recovery and growth. Following growth stimulation (your workout), these 100 units represent the total, limited amount of reserves that are available for the body to distribute between recovery and growth. In your workout, you do 1 set to positive failure. The inroad you caused from this one set demands that 50 of the limited number of units be used for recovery from it. That leaves 50 left over that can be used for growth! Well, you decide one set isn′t enough, so you do another one on another exercise. Since you already used energy on that first set, the intensity of this one is hindered. This extra set causes more inroad to the reserves, demanding that 30 more be used on recovery. Now, only 20 units are left over for growth (50 set one + 30 set two = 80 total recovery, 100 total – 80 recover = 20 left for growth). But, you′re a beginner and heard another set is all right for beginners…that′ll take 12 more units for recovery. Only 8 left for growth now… VERY QUICKLY, YOU′VE DONE ENOUGH TO PREVENT GROWTH FROM HAPPENING AT ALL! In fact, in many cases 4 exercises to positive failure have even shown to be too much Volume for growth to occur!

See what′s happening? Every time you add a set it′s digging into your potential growth! In order to ensure you get the most growth out of your workout, Volume should be at the absolute minimum to stimulate growth. I must repeat, the ideal scenario would be to stimulate growth with no volume at all; that would allow ALL the reserves to be used on growth and none on recovery! Actually, the best routine for a beginner would be 1 set of Trap-Bar Deadlifts to failure, wait 7 days, and repeat. That would no doubt yield more growth than any other routine, because it involves the most muscles to the highest degree with highest weight yet in a minimum Volume.

The most fatal mistake people make when they try to understand bodybuilding science is that they don′t understand that the body has a limited amount of resources to distribute between both recovery and growth.