HighIntensity.net View Mike Mentzer Bodybuilding Topic

Hey guys,

Since I have started training again (3 months ago) after a layoff of 6/7 years I have been reading as much as I can on HIT. I really like to read all I can find about:
Mike Mentzer
Ellington Darden
Arthur Jones

One thing I do not understand, and maybe you guys know the answer: Why do Darden and Jones say that full body workouts are better than split routines like Mike advices? I′ve read the Nautilus Bulletins 1 and 2, three times, maybe I have overlooked the answer. But I still don′t know why they prefer full body workouts. Which arguments do they use to defend their opinion?

I have tried it once many years ago. I had to performe 20 sets 3 times a week. All I remember was that every time, I felt completely waisted half way in the routine (around 10th or 12th set). Always the muscles that had to be trained at the end of the routine were not given the hard work they deserved, because I had no energie left. Also, in the 3th or 4th week I got weaker on all compound exercises and quit. I then went back to volume training. But that was a mistake I wil never make again

I really like the booksof Ellington and the work of Jones and I am willing to try it again in the future, but for now I will stay whith the Ideal Routine. Which is also hard work but at least I have the energy to work hard until the last exercise.

Please comment

Zico

I would not go to that routine for the reasons stated. If anything, I would start out with Mike′s baseline (idea; routine) program for 3 times a week, until you begin to use the intensity required for the longer rest days.

The problem with Dardens stuff is that your normal guy cannot go in, do a max effort on all the big lifts without falling short on the other stuff.

The problem with going to Heavy Duty right off the bat is that the majority does not have the slightest clue on how hard they must push themselves, myself included.

After a few months, you will begin to overtrain and then understand intensity and how to apply it to it′s fullest. At that point, I promise you will not want a full body workout, if anything, you will look for excuses to shorten your workouts.

Also, Darden tends to go off of some older principles, like decomponsation starts after 96 hours, and the full body workout thing, which leads most to overtrain.

What I don′t understand is how can someone like Darden still believe in SUCH an old myth like decompensation after 4 days? You would think he would have questioned this by now, and figured out it was bogus. I would also have thought someone ELSE would have called him on this by now, and he would have to have faced this issue.

Oh well, I′ve been pretty down on "authorities" lately. The only 2 that seem to know what they′re talking about most of the time Mike and Arthur. Mike knows the most, and doesn′t bull**** about stuff he doesn′t know about.

Darrell

I know, Darden cares more about making money and selling his books than he does helping others and advancing along the theory.

Why? The reason is because you saw that Mike, being a popular and pro bodybuilder had a hard enough time convincing people. People want to be in the gym 3 days a week. That is the norm and acceptable almost universally. So, in turn, Darden figures he will take the easy route, put the normal looking guy in the book, and give the people what they want.

I have the book, and he is still advising giant sets of sort, IE, doing curls to failure, then 2 other bicep excersises, which extends the effort.

I happen to think that full body routines are great for certain people at certain times. I′ve used them myself in the past, and have made exceptional progress with them. The people they work great for are the following.

1) Beginners who don′t know how to train yet. They learn the exercises quickly, make tremendous neuro gains, and learn about intensity. Generally, they′re still too weak to really damage themselves.

2) People coming back after long layoffs. This is when I′ve used them before (didn′t the last time though), and noticed rapid improvement. I know a guy who did a full body 5 days a week after coming back after a layoff, and gained almost all the muscle back in a month that he had lost.

3) People who are de-loading off a higher volume routine. I know this doesn′t apply to HDers, but guys who use more volue who go on a full body de-load period usually do quite well. Well, the guys I know who do this do well anyway. Basic lifts, kind of like a consolidated routine done twice a week or 5 times over two weeks or something.

Darden′s protocols aren′t my favorite though. I don′t think it′s realistic over the long term, for obvious reasons.

Jeff